Exotic Automatic - Weapon Design

Design & Discussion of Mechanics for Wrist Blades, Knives, Wrist Spikes, Mini Flamethrowers, Stun Gloves, Arm Swords, Retractable Claws, and Exotic Gear & Equipment
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XIPHOIDS
Xiphoid, also known as a Retractable Forearm Dagger, is a class of bladed weapons with a dagger like blade that is retractable into a forearm worn wristband or bracer sheath.Designed for swift and quick surprise attacks. It is notable for being evolved from the Katar and similarities to the Pata, short punching swords, which results in the blade sitting above the user's knuckles.
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 The Balistic Knife

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billsykes
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PostSubject: The Balistic Knife   Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:01 pm

Ballistic knives, manufactured by the USSR company Ostblock, were supplied in large numbers to the Soviet special forces group Spetsnaz throughout the 1980s.

Ballistic knives are used as covert "stealth" weapons when a firearm is not appropriate. The Russian Spetznaz ballistic knife is a metal tube with a powerful spring to deploy the blade. The blade can be deployed and remain attached to the handle or, by pulling out a stop pin, actually propel the blade effectively about 20 feet. The spring in these knives is powerful enough that the knife can be placed against a person and fired and it will penetrate clothing and flesh.
No...not really...but read on.....info in later post...






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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:02 pm

Oh fer fucksake i still cant post bloody pics Arrrggggg Arrrggggg

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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:04 pm

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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:05 pm

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKINEL Arrrggggg Arrrggggg Arrrggggg Arrrggggg Arrrggggg
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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:07 pm

????

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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:12 pm

[/img]
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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:13 pm

i can not seeee billy

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billsykes
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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:14 pm

Hang in there BG someones bound to come to ol' Bills assistance soon enuff.....I HOPE! Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:30 pm

you may enjoy this if you like 'explosive' knives

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uVTPRhWdfc
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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:35 pm

work for you there, bill? Laughing sorry i make it look so easy Cool



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billsykes
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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:52 pm

SWEETAZ me ol' muckah cheers cheers cheers

Yeah you do make it look bloody easy too! Laughing care to enlighten ol'Bill? Rolling Eyes Wink Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:53 pm

UN9 is that the G.R.A.D. .22 gunknife? Cool Cool

Awesome bit a kit that! Twisted Evil

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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:34 pm

billsykes wrote:
The spring in these knives is powerful enough that the knife can be placed against a person and fired and it will penetrate clothing and flesh.


To a degree that is true and false.....

My buddy had one and the idiot sold it to someone other than me!!!!

For every action there is a equal and opposite re-action. For the most part it would also push your hand backwards.

Now...if the knife was mounted and could not move and you opened it with 'cloth & flesh' blocking it it will go in a bit....sharpness helps.
But the real math here is how powerful is the force of the blade pushing , the resistence of the blocking material, and the stability/movement of both.
If both can move both will just be pushed apart once the reistence matches the force. Think of opeinng it against a wall.

OK...same knife...same 'cloth&flesh'...shoot the knife from a foot away...it's going in deep. Placing the knife against a obstruction and opening does not give it a chance to build up momentum/speed&force or use the full power of the spring. You get the 'pushing' power of the spring and not the 'launching' power of it opening without obstuction.

We did this with wood.
Place the knife against a chunk of wood, open it and it will stick in so far.
Shoot the knife at the same chunk of wood from a short distance and it sticks a lot deeper.

I don't know if we have the real version of 'knife can be placed against a person and fired and it will penetrate clothing and flesh'.
A Sandshark won't do that...and I would think that to be tp of the line. Ballistic knife won't really do that.

Maybe a thin spike/needle like blade and a small charge behind it in a handle. I don't think any spring is going to do what you are describing in the way that we are all thinking of it working.

Scratch that...I think a device could be designed to do that with springs...but it would have to be designed to do that.
something like a simple tube, but a longer one. Blades and springs inside, but designed in a way that it would use all the force of the springs to slam that blade forward hard. Would need a good strong gripped handle, figer grooves for no movement. Thin spike/needle blade razor sharp.
I mean designed just for this reson only. Would be nothing more than a assinsin's tool. I would look at medical equipment to see what they have. They have some crazy tools.

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billsykes
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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:59 pm

[/quote]The spring in these knives is powerful enough that the knife can be placed against a person and fired and it will penetrate clothing and flesh.[quote]

I got a confession.....i copied and pasted it from Wikipedia Embarassed duh Laughing

Love the idea of a charged spike tho Cool Cool Cool Cool Cool

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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:35 pm

Bill
I can't see what's wrong in your first post.

look closely at the location of your brackets in later posts-
I'm going to type with spaces between each letter so it does not run.

[ I M G ] photobucketthenameofyourfile.jpg [ / I M G ]


Also, in your previous post, your quote didn't run in a black box
because your (slash quote) bracket came first instead of last

instead off this correct order
[ q u o t e ] whatyouwanttosay [ / q u o t e ]
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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:23 am

Cheers Bruva Jer, i'll give it a go cheers cheers cheers

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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:33 am



Fingers Xd Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:39 am

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES FUCKIN' FINALLY!

cheers JERRY JERRY JERRY cheers

Just in case you think im blaspheming im not.....I love God and i can relate to Uncle Chop-Chop so when i found this pic it immediately became my mobile phones wallpaper! Cool Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:06 am

I don't mind, it's your soul, not mine.
Just kidding , between OSHA , patent law, and machining tolerance practices,
I don't worry about artistic opinions. or roman catholic rules in my brain.

Besides, my brother Jeff shocked me years ago with his art.
I'm jaded now.

I have no idea who "uncle chop chop" is.
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billsykes
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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:24 am

Heh heh God knows im a good bloke even if no-one else does Wink Laughing

Sorry Jerr, Uncle Chop-Chop is a reference to Mark Brandon "Chopper" Read, an infamous Austalian criminal, off his bloody tits, you sould see the film about him or read one of his books Cool Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:50 pm

Bill S don't feel bad about having a hard time posting pics. Sinza had to show me everything, I was doing it all wrong dunno
Now I'm about 50/50 :lol!:

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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:41 pm

O RLY? Please do tell! What of this "Toy" of which you speak??! Very Happy PhyreBlade

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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:10 am

Here's the full info from Wikipedia

--------------------------------------
A ballistic knife is a knife with a detachable blade that can be expelled from the handle/frame as a projectile commonly propelled by a spring-operated or gas-driven mechanism. These knives are banned almost nationwide in the United States.

Contents
1 Lethality
2 Uses
3 Legality
4 References




Lethality
Ballistic knives are not considered to be particularly effective weapons, especially as when compared to a firearm of similar availability. Indeed, the main advantage of a ballistic knife is its ability to surprise a target. If used toward the enemy's face, a user would gain a momentary advantage and opportunity to relieve the enemy of his weapon. Most inexperienced fighters consider a knife to be a solely melee weapon.


Uses
Ballistic knives, manufactured by the USSR company Ostblock, were supplied in large numbers to the Soviet special forces group Spetsnaz throughout the 1980s.

Ballistic knives are used as covert "stealth" weapons when a firearm is not appropriate. The Russian Spetznaz ballistic knife is a metal tube with a powerful spring to deploy the blade. The blade can be deployed and remain attached to the handle for use as a common sheath knife, or by pressing a button or pulling a pin it will launch the blade. The spring in these knives is powerful enough to actually propel the blade effectively about 20 feet. When combined with an overhand throwing motion it will penetrate clothing and flesh. However practised knife throwers dismiss the spring advantage and often prefer standard throwing knife designs.


Legality
Unlike conventional switchblade automatic knives, which are legal to possess in 29 USA states by regular citizens and by specially qualified individuals in all 50 states, ballistic knives are highly regulated for all but a very few special military personnel and illegal nationwide.[1] After ballistic knife sales in the U.S.A. was halted in 1986, the launching handle was made available with a small grappling hook for climbing, however the hook itself is not approved for use by DOI AM (U.S.Department of the Interior, Aviation Management) for either U.S. Military helicopter personnel tactics or civilian rappelling.

Some OTF (out the front) switchblades could be partially dismantled by removing a pin, allowing the blade to launch, but the lightweight blade was neither ballistically or aerodynamically sound, and failed to attract the interest of knife throwing practitioners.
------------------------------------
The I found this....
TITLE 15 > CHAPTER 29 > § 1245Prev | Next § 1245. Ballistic knives
(a) Prohibition and penalties for possession, manufacture, sale, or importation
Whoever in or affecting interstate commerce, within any Territory or possession of the United States, within Indian country (as defined in section 1151 of title 18.), or within the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States (as defined in section 7 of title 18), knowingly possesses, manufactures, sells, or imports a ballistic knife shall be fined as provided in title 18., or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.
(b) Prohibition and penalties for possession or use during commission of Federal crime of violence
Whoever possesses or uses a ballistic knife in the commission of a Federal crime of violence shall be fined as provided in title 18, or imprisoned not less than five years and not more than ten years, or both.
(c) Exceptions
The exceptions provided in paragraphs (1), (2), and (3) of section 1244 of this title with respect to switchblade knives shall apply to ballistic knives under subsection (a) of this section.
(d) “Ballistic knife” defined
As used in this section, the term “ballistic knife” means a knife with a detachable blade that is propelled by a spring-operated mechanism.
-------------------------------------

ummmm.....I did say it was a friend of mine that was buying it didn't I???
.
.
.
Me?...I got rid of all my weapons and toys... I don't own anything illegal. :ghr:

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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Sat Apr 19, 2008 12:28 pm

LOL Niiiiice... Man, that is too cool... Shame you had to get rid of all of your weapons... So many silly, silly laws... LOL Laughing PhyreBlade

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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:09 pm


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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:28 am

Jesus!!! It's been 20 years!! I forgot how hard and how scary it is to try and load and shoot one of these!





Scary Mother Fucker!! Won't be playing with this one .....had to use ALL my strength to load it pushing it against the ground...and it still took a few tries.
The spring is huge and very strong.....Fuckin' crazy Ruskies...

Shot it across the room a few times... affraid ...did I say it was a SCARY mother fucker?!?!?

Not something to play with! ...Fuckin' A !!! Would be cool if it was a easy reload and it was more accurate.
It's just so dangerous to the person loading/shooting it. Now....as these were banned pretty quick there weren't too many generations made. So not to many improvements were ever looked into, designed, or created. What it is is a very VERY simple design. Now, just like Harkins took the basic OTF design and made it stronger and better the same could be done for these. I'm sure that with a little more time/money/design a close to perfect model could be designed...but it will never happen, not with the laws the way they are, it's a dead end design.

Bottom line.....
Seriously...Scarrrrrry!!!!


P.S. I myself would never own such a weapon...the one in the pictures above as I understand was destroyed completely by melting with a cutting torch right after the pictures were taken. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.....

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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Sat Jun 07, 2008 8:08 am

EGADS!!!!

That is Freakin SWEEET!! The Ruskies knew how to make fool proof, seriously indestructable weapons...

The one thing that isnt clear from the pics, is how that blade cover/baton is affixed to the blade. It l;ooks like it just slides over the "habaki" (I dont know what it would be called in Russia LOL) of the blade, with no positive retention. What prevents it from coming off? confused
But i'll say it again... That's a beautiful thing to behold... Twisted Evil PhyreBlade

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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Sat Jun 07, 2008 9:35 am

.. I would not want one of those to go off in my pocket..ultimate pain.
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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:02 am

Quote:
how that blade cover/baton is affixed to the blade.


You're right, with a little extra
The front and back are capped with really hard plastic plugs, a similar one is used as a habaki at the base of the blade. The end cap of the baton cover is slotted on the inside. I'll post a pic later. ...and you can see how the open end of the baton has a cut out for the spring trigger, so the baton only fits on one way. It fits on tight enough that it stays on, but it is just a press fit. I'd do it with hard rubber for a little extra grab.

I have this thing about black lathed knurled objects...they just look cool... :SINZA:

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Last edited by SINZA on Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Sat Jun 07, 2008 8:37 pm

Ah... OK... Hard plastic Habaki...? Interesting..
And I agree wholeheartedly about black knurled handles... Those are very cool... They just have this right look and feel... Twisted Evil Very Happy PhyreBlade

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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:42 pm


Top pics...just playing around to see what the blades would looked like switched.

The difference between a real ballistic knife and a fantasy version. Funny, the blade from the fake works with the real launcher. Fits perfect.
Similar design, basically the same. The fake one has some nice design elements to it. I like the stronger handle, the button release, rubber grip, also I prefer the rod tang over the tube handle of the real one.
Would be nice to see a version that is the best of both.

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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:50 pm

NIIICEEE!!! Ok now THIS I like. Perhaps the BladeWhip isn't entirely worthless after all...LOL

Can you/Have you tried launching the Bladewhip from the Ballistic knife handle? LOL I'm guessing the Ballistic knife would probably be more stable because of the tube handle, as opposed to the rat tail... What is it about the rat tail that you prefer over the tube? Just the easthetics? Or are there other reasons?

I like the button release idea, and the rubber grip probably would feel a lot nicer in the hand. I'd probably do something along the lines of replacing the knurling on the original with a rubber sleeve... Twisted Evil PhyreBlade

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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:08 am

Quote:
"Can you/Have you tried launching the Bladewhip from the Ballistic knife handle? LOL I'm guessing the Ballistic knife would probably be more stable because of the tube handle, as opposed to the rat tail... What is it about the rat tail that you prefer over the tube? Just the aesthetics? Or are there other reasons?


The tube handle is just a press fit, comes off if you pull it or it it hits wrong. It's not secured in any way. A fixed tang could be made so the blade and tang are one piece. I suppose you could do either one as one piece, just lathe it out. Just a different way of doing it, the tube would probably be more stable in launching.

If you look at these three, each seems to be a bit different. Just thinking of ways to do each part best. ....not that I've ever going to build any.




Funny thing is if you make it a arrow or spike it's not a ballistic knife anymore......I really don't see the difference, other than emotional, between a blade, a spike, and a arrow when designed to launch and penetrate. It's metal, it's pointed and sharp. scratch

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Phyreblade
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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:21 pm

SINZA wrote:
Funny thing is if you make it a arrow or spike it's not a ballistic knife anymore......I really don't see the difference, other than emotional, between a blade, a spike, and a arrow when designed to launch and penetrate. It's metal, it's pointed and sharp. scratch

Indeed... I agree. There isn't much difference. These laws all seem to be driven by dumb irrational fears... PhyreBlade

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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:06 pm

Beautiful pics of the Ballistic knife guys.Ive wanted for a while still want one even though its a felony offense just owning one.Bid on one once at Sharperdeals but was outbid it got way to steep for a curio Neutral .Ill end up getting my paws on one before my days are over
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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:11 am





This is the one I want. This is supposed to be the original design. Looks a bit more sturdy.
One piece blade & tang, not the stupid tube stuck on the end. I also like the grenade pin! Anything with a grenade pin looks dangerous!
Big difference here is the release. This is a twist of the handguard pins, the other is a puch of a button assembly. Totally different.
Even though this is a better design I would think the button would be a smoother release, but as I've never handled the Russia version I don't really know.


My advice...if you ever happen to find one for sale find out if it's one of these good ones or the cheaper Florida copies that we have pictured above.
Easy to tell... tube or tang. Tube bad.
Don't spend too much. It will be difficult to re-sell as you can't advertise it or have it at knife shows.
If you read what I've written above you will see that these are a cool curio piece but a crappy weapon. Just give me a handgun, works better.
It is cool to show to buddies, but getting busted with one isn't really worth the bragging rights.
I had one in my collection, got it for free. Cool toy, scary as Hell to load and shoot.
Mine was melted with a torch right after we took pictures of it. (I'm still sticking to that story)

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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:34 am

Thats an interesting version i havent seen that model before with the twist guards seems more lethal than the tube because it has less weight on the tube and more on the blade.Im sure they were mast produced at some point because i know they were always advertised in the shotgun news back in the 80s.From what ive heard they were sold all over the u.s at on point until the government put an end to it Evil or Very Mad Some kid probably shot his friends eye out or shot it through his cat or something Rolling Eyes.It seems there was a number of differnt patterns,As a weapon no its not very effective maybe as a last ditch effort in close range but i would take a 1911 or a ballistic knife any day of the weak Wink
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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:25 pm

Now that's a cool variation of the ballistic design... Does look much stronger than the tube design, though I'd be willing to bet that it also messes with the projectile ballistics of the blade... The tube seems like it would track better in mid air. I think I'm gonna play with the (purely theoretical) idea of combining a full tang and a tube construction... Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:53 pm

I sold a Florida version on Ebay last year(no spring)that I got intact from an auction (I got rid of the spring!) LAST YEAR!
I got about 200.00 or so and paid 50.00 for it I'm thinking the Auction had no idea there was a blade as it was listed a "spring loaded thingy"I thought it was the baton ,but when I gave the thing a tug SUPRISE!
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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Sat Apr 18, 2009 3:48 am

You lucky bastige... Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:50 am

What is the deal with that slotted blade version with the stepped down tube?
I haven't ever seen on of those.
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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:03 am

headhunter15e wrote:
What is the deal with that slotted blade version with the stepped down tube?
I haven't ever seen on of those.


Just variations on a basic design idea. Some of the above designs are high quality and some are the cheap versions.

If you are referring to this one...

..then I'd say I think this is one of the higher quality versions. But it's just a guess by looking at different pictures.
I've only had experience with the cheaper design models and I wasn't that impressed overall. A neat toy but crappy weapon.
I'd love to have one of each to try the higher quality ones out to see if they work any better, but I have NO IDEA how to obtain one.

If anyone has one they want to get rid of you can send me a private message.

SINZA

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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Fri May 01, 2009 12:47 am

I don't look back too fondly of the original I owned in the 80s and the bloodied thumb behind the nail.It was lost somewhere down range at FT Cartoon......loaded as I recall.I would never intentionally carry it that way ,I intended to replace the grenade pin with a more substantial pressure button pin and devise a camo pouch for it.
Yet another of the many reasons why my command elements thought I was crazy/dangerous.
The fuckers still should have given me sniper school even though I was a 19D.....but I'm not bitter.
I have that Blade saber comming in ,looks like a fun thing to modify with my diabolical intelect...heh,heh,heh
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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Fri May 01, 2009 7:33 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIR21QS_2Xc



Talk about set yourself up for a visit from the Authorities! Rolling Eyes naughty Rolling Eyes Laughing

Wonder what other Exotic Automatica he's got in that display cabinet? scratch Cool Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Fri May 01, 2009 1:01 pm

I guess that would be a good way to catch one of us,if we were stupid enough to pay 909.00 for it.It looks like the cheap remake as well.
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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Sat May 02, 2009 1:42 am

Not worth the money other than it's a rare item. Only worth having for bragging rights.

This is the same as the one I have had Rolling Eyes

It's cool and all to show people, but it's one of those things that the idea is better than the reality of the object.

Sad story....cool idea-crappy knife....crappy movie came out with Arnold shooting blade into a guy....crappy laws make crappy knife illegal...end of story.

As I've said, I'd love to see advances made in this design, but as it's illegal in almost all countries it's pretty much a dead end design.
No one will make better versions, no one will make Ballistic knives for sale again, no knifemaker would build them for fear of prison.
It's sad. People freaked out and laws were passed. I could see the same for 'wrist-mounted blades' someday.
SINZA

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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:32 am

типа лезвием стреляет ?
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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:51 am

translation is too short and does not make sense . .

типа лезвием стреляет ?
"type by blade it shoots ?"

if you are asking , "does it launch or shoot the blade ?
оно запускает или снимает лезвие ?

Yes, it will shoot the blade
Да, оно снимет лезвие

But is not what everyone hopes for
Но нет чего каждое надеется для

legendary stories are better than experiments with actual knife
легендарные рассказы более лучшие чем эксперименты с фактическим ножом
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PostSubject: Re: The Balistic Knife   Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:39 am

I now speak of the American version .It's a surprise close range weapon that will penetrate through a heavy jacket,as well as jam your thumb and make enough audible noise to give away your location to anyone 50 feet away.I once asked a green beret about throwing knives when I was young.He said "You have to practice a lot but it's better to learn how to use it in your hand than to throw it away."
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