First topic message reminder :

Yes, it's that time again.

ANOTHER Hidden Blade for our dissecting :)

The trailer shows the inside of the dubbed 'Altair Style' Blade (Dubbed because the second installment is about an assassin named 'Ezio'. Also, he has TWO, yes, 2 hidden blades, one for each arm.

(Thanks to KroenenPayne for the character image)


What we know so far:

- You’ll have a ton of new weapons to choose from including an axe, a hammer, a mace, a spear, 2 different sword types, a spear axe, and 2 smaller blades
- You CAN swim
- Da Vincis workshop is in the game
- Locations include Saint Marks Basilica, The Grand Canal, The Little Canal, and the Rialto bridge.
- The game opens in 1476, Altair is from 1191
- So you do indeed play as a new ancestor of Altair / Desmond
-You will see the countryside of Tuscany
- The “Auditore” family is mentioned
- The main characters name is Ezio Auditore de Firenze
- He is a nobleman of Florence
- Big characters are in the game including Machiavelli, Caterina Sofrza, and Lorenzo de Medici
- YOU DO INDEED GLIDE on Da Vincis flying machine.
- Game will feature a new notoriety system that governs how enemy soldiers and people will treat you.
- You can disarm enemies and use their own weapons against them this time.
- Each weapon has a special move.
- 16 unique mission types.
- No more ease dropping or pick pocketing missions.
- If you get beat up to much you will need to see a street side doctor to regain full strength.
- Hidden objects (like flags in the first one) are there to uncover but this time if you track them down you will get in-game bonuses that make it worth your time.
- Items include, flags, statues, and gold coins and more that isnt mentioned.
- New enemy types with unique attitudes and weaknesses are present in the game. Archers are mentioned, as well as elite enemies, dagger wielders, “Brutish” armored troops with heavy armor and 2 handed swords and axes, and an intelligent halberd enemy will probe hiding places with their weapons if they think you’re near by.
- While hiding in a hay bail you can assassinate people this time, but it may expose your position.
- You can still climb towers and ride horses
- The Lorendo de Medici assassination attempt is in the game.
- There is now a night and day sequence in the game.
- 240 people are working on this title.

Not much else except this teaser trailer:



I guess the lazy tong idea was right guys!:


What is that round thing in the center? Maybe a spiral spring that pushes and pulls the blade back in? We won't know for sure until we actually see it operate:


The most visible change i think is the fact that he has all of his fingers. There is definatly something going on with the device's operation dealing with the wrist:


You use this in the game:

Well i think the included it, but they just never showed the shoot, cause how i said, there was the disc in prvious trailers. I just hope that the gun will be available only in the last mission to assassinate the major target and then the fun part would be escaping. By the way you got to watch E3 DEMO of the AC2 cause it's super. I see there will be smoke bombs, new assassination styles, more "parkour" moves and other S**t. Can't wait untill it will be realased

djvista

Yeah, I agree with the disc. And I was wondering about what it could be.
But I mean the 'rail' (don't know the english word for it) for the bullet.

And at gametrailers there's a new video. A little interview. The gun has been confirmed

I have seen it 3 times and it's great;)

Yeah I know what you mean, well I'm watching the trailer right now and I think i see your 'rail' it's a barrel in english , the only thing i just hope that the gun doesn't f**k the game, because using gun the assassinations i think will be easy, but let's wait the game and then judge

djvista I agree hopefully the gun does not ruin the whole assassination theme of the game. Maybe they will make it so that you have to be close to actually kill or even hit. As most of us know the only available gun type weapon of that time period would have to be the musket and that was not very effective long range. Either it would curve off target or the musket wouldn't hit with enough force to actually pierce anything vital.

The gun will probably be a one time use and reset much like the throwing knives would automatically replenish after visiting one of those "sanctuarys" in the first AC.

It will be a last resort weapon and it's usage will probably need to be strategic.

Hope so otherwise it could make the game too easy. Either way though a very interesting concept. Can't wait to actually see how they do it in the game. Not only that but the other weapons as well.

The gun will have to be used at very close range. I know this from experience as i have a old musket gun that fires and for a shot to hit the target and kill them you have to be at least within 50 yards for it to kill. any further away and its possible that the bullet will drift off, loose momentum or just hit to target only causing minimum damage.

djvista i also agree with you, I am hoping that a gun will not ruin the aspect of the assassinations. In the first AC I loved just walking up and stabbing them with the hidden blade in the neck and been able to just run off after

Thanks KP for the video. Been waiting for a new one to come out.

For me November cant come fast enough, I can't wait to play AC2

Just for anyone who has not seen it, here is a link to the E3 demo of AC2

http://assassinscreed.uk.ubi.com/assassins-creed-2/#/video/5701

I would say there will be situations where you'll need to use the gun to take out your target. Notice in the trailer that he only used it when he sensed a trap. I'm betting that you won't be able to take out armored guards such as the ones seen in the trailer with convenient weapons and you'll need to work around them or use the environment to eliminate them. Metal armor doesn't float and the setting is in Venice after all.

Yeah i think that your right there. I think that the ones with the armour are going to be harder to kill. I think that you might have to use them smoke bombs that he used in the demo to get behind them and exploit there weak spots.

Lol that or simply use the counter to take their heavy weapons and use it to cleave into them through the armor. Anyways that E3 makes it that much harder to wait till November amazing looking game. If thats exactly how the game play will be this could simply be the best assassination based game to ever come out.

I am working on this project as well though I am excluding the musket part from it and keeping Da Vinci's clockwork mechanics for the blade to fit my own use.

I have looked over your diagrams and such and find them hard to understand but do reflect your genius and creativity. In my opinion, a good hidden blade should include as little seperate parts and functions as possible while still being able to do the job. The more parts, the more things can go wrong in the field. Out of instinct I saw that large, circular piece to be some sort of spring box that is the soul driving force and retracting force for the blade, so that is where I am now and I would appreciate your input. I have no camera of any kind so I am afraid our colaborations are limited to words.


~Conrad Greely

well it has already been explained before but i'll say it again. the large wheel is actually a type of pulley, you pull on the ring causing the wheel to rotate. that makes the green string to move back, then the little peg is like a pully reversing the direction of the green sting. That pulls on the joint of the scissor jack causing the blade to move forward. then the springs would just be attached to the segments of the scissor jack or have a circular spring inside of the wheel. does it make more sense now?

Not really, no.

ok i'll draw it out.

the fatty arrow is for the scissor jacks. do you get it now?

Yes, thank you. But the scissor jacks do not look like they would provide enough thrust. And what about the retracting?

first off why don't you make an account? and also those diagnal purple lines over the scissor jack are the springs. I don't know if PB made this partiicular sketch to scale but the double wheel designs are. and you would be surprised how far those scissor jacks can move because its likda like a quarter of an inch suddenly becomes 2 inches, repeate this several times and walla.

I do have an account but I misplaced the username so now it is hopeless even if I do have the email address and password.

ask sinza to delete it so you can make a new one that has the right name.

Looking at the first photo of our hero,
I can't help thinking that all this is a lot of fuss
over a very very tiny blade.

Mind you, it's a very cool blade, but it does look small.

And this was a time when people were wearing Rapiers as formal jewelry

Dam that photo is good, just one thing the "big gear" that you're calling it, as you saw it at the trailer, before the shoot ezio turned it also somehow makes the gun to load. But I guess we should forget about the gun and only concentrate on the blade mechanism.
Oh and if scisor jack is made from good materials believe me it's invincible. I have one made from stainless steel and it would be hard to bend it.

Beefy mongoose wrote:first off why don't you make an account? and also those diagnal purple lines over the scissor jack are the springs. I don't know if PB made this partiicular sketch to scale but the double wheel designs are. and you would be surprised how far those scissor jacks can move because its likda like a quarter of an inch suddenly becomes 2 inches, repeate this several times and walla.

Ya but remember that this is a hidden blade not a hidden and folding out scisor jack, the blade must fit in the blade box and be enough long when follded out, I think it must be a 2 cm over your longest finger when it's out.

no the blade just has to go past your knuckles because you dont extend your fingers when you punch. also if you can add a sturdy enough of a sleeve then that is an easy task, but sleevs are naturally weak. also i think the gun and blade are two entirely different mechanisms that dont interact with each other, they just use the same platform.

i noticed some confusion, for lack of a better term, about the locking mechanism, and was wondering about it. has anybody seen the spring loaded pens with the weird shaped cone block in the end? when you push the depressor at the end of the pen it forces the block into a different position to lock the pen tip into place so you can write, then another press and the block is moved again to allow the pen tip back into the casing. just a thought, and i have no idea if it's even understandable, got the idea from an old ink pen that my grandma uses.

we have already talked about the pen lock idea in another thread and we came to the conclusion that the pen type of lock does work but it isn't good for high stress circumstances. also if you thought the pictures have a lock on them they don't yet if thats what you meant

it also doesn't allow for a very long extension compared to how much bulk it would add to any design.

Don't know if this has been said already but i was thinking of individual systems. One for extending the blade and one for retracting. After studying the picture of the blade dismantled i was thinking that the gears retracted the blade and the scissor tongs (lazy tongs) extend with the horozontal bars locking the blade in place. Just a suggestion and i'm new here so...yeah- anyway let me know what you think.

Sorry dude i don't understand well english but a few skecths and drawings would make it clearer

Hey don't worry but as far as drawings go- not so good at them

Okay, ummm just something i drew up using word (so its really not that great). umm i used one of the ideas mentioned earlier to extend the blade using the rollers, sorry but i couldn't think of anything else.

Okay so i think it will speak for itself, as i have labeled it. :) thats if the pics work. oh and by the way, i'm fairly new and haven't said an official hi yet. So hi ya'll. and sorry if this takes up a fair bit of page.

Also if anyone has described this, i am sorry i only skimmed through the previously written stuff. And BTW this is not to scale and is a work in progress, and so if things need to be said, please say if you think it needs to be altered in either way.

Okay so here is my basic design.



And the way the gears work.





Sorry if it didn't make sense, just say so.

(P.S Open for criticism)

Cheereo, Dave.

Damn that's nice drawing just one problem blade is to short

@djvista

Lol. As I said its not so scale, but your right maybe a bit bigger, lol, anyway anyone can use this and mod it to there own needs just sharing ideas..... And thanks for the comment on the drawing. :).

Cheers, Dave.

I am back.

I have worked on this project in the nights I cannot get sleep and have come to the conclusion that I do not really care for the complex mechanism that allows you to move the blade out and then back so easily. It may make it easy and make it look cool but I do not think it is worth it. So I dropped the stress of trying to figure that out and I have finished my design.

My design consists of the original contraption. You wear a ring with a wire connected to it, you bring your hand back and a spring sets off that slides the blade and sleeve out of their container.
But then I have included a peg or some other means of grip on the sleeve that you use to pull back and lock the spring up again to repeat the process over again.

Now..this gave me time to add something to it. As I said, I do not care for the musket so I included two seperate balistic knives tot he left and right of the hidden blade system.

The triggers for the balistic blades are at the back of the hidden blade system. I am happy with what I call my V3 Balistic Blade System that uses the usual blade, barrel, and spring. But the trigger works with 4 gears, along with a few other parts, but mostly just the simple gears. You pull the trigger back and the blade and spring is unlocked at the same time, firing the 4 edged blade out of the barrel in a spiral due to the engravings inside the barrel and the design of the blade itself. A trick that gave birth to the first sniper rifles.

The sun hadn't risen yet, so I continued and also designed:

arm and hand pads that become multi-bladed with a simple trigger system

two different, small, trap contraptions using simple clockwork mechanics and balistic blades

and a unique hunter's blade with qualities most would not understand.



sorry for the long post. So what do you think?

Show me your sketches

@XxCALIBERxX
Very nice variation on the design! There are a couple of schematics here that each use some of the elements of your design, but I don't recall seeing any that combine them in quite this way.

Giving it the quick once over, I see two things you may want to change. The first is that at least one of your pivot points on the tongs has to be fixed, and it is not readily apparent from your diagram where your fixed point is.

The second is that the fixed point would need to be where you have currently placed your rack (your "green thing"). It's not a big deal, I suggest putting a slot in the middle of your rack and using your fixed pin point and the floating pin as guides for your rack. It could actually work out better for you that way.

Nice work so far. Especially using MS Word... :)

@Gree ly
I agree about the excessive complexity of the design showed in the game marketing. However without any schematics, it is hard to provide any input on your design. If you can post a diagram or sketch we would be happy to provide additional input.

@Phyreblade

Yeah, i was wondering about that to, i thought it might be a problem, and may require some testing, so that the lazy tongs don't actually collide with the outer gears, i won't be making it for a while though as i have my crossbow to finish. But once that is done i'll got for it.

Thanks, I actually find MS easier than Paint, dunno why... lol

Cheers ya'll

Very well I shall try to create some schematics on here.

And once again to take up my free time I have started another project. A set of mechanical double doors that is unlocked and opened by the use of a system of weights and gears that are all exposed because of their systematic beauty. It has proved to be quite a challenge but I am almost finished, I just need to make the motion of the doors fully compatable with the door opening system.

These doors and many other contraptions (most that use secrecy like the hidden blade) are a series of elements I am including in my main project I have nicknamed H.O.M.E.
It is a very very unique house I am designing unlike any other that I know has existed. If anyone is interested or would like to give me input you may message me using some other means.

I think i just creamed myself..

LOL... So long as you're still with us, that's ok... :)

ill see if i can find the video my friend showed me but in ac2 he shoots his blade at his target and thats what the clockwork mechanism was for, like a windup toy or something.

it was actually a flint lock pistol that he fired and not the actual blade. we already have talked about it on the second page of this very thread.

Yes for a moment I thought it was a blade being shot out too but the flint lock look was unmistakable.

Yes i see where all this is going but the blade needs to be able to attrac and re attrac itsself mechanically i see all the gears and stuff but what would power the gears to make them move?

wildpelt112 we have a lot of users on this site that do not speak very good English and rely on translators to read the website so could you please at least try to spell things right and use correct grammar. if you really are 21 (we don't care what your age is) this shouldn't be a problem. thank you.

i recently watched a trailer from E3 on youtube. And in the trailer ezio winds back that circular gear thing and it shoot the blade out like a gun
thought it might help clear up some stuff

maddyl wrote:i recently watched a trailer from E3 on youtube. And in the trailer ezio winds back that circular gear thing and it shoot the blade out like a gun
thought it might help clear up some stuff

If you would actually read the entire post then you would know that it DOES NOT shoot the blade out. It is a flint lock device that fires a bullet.

Nuff said

Flintlocks so inaccurate. He would be better off with an arm mounted crossbow.

we already have a thread on wrist mounted crossbows and the main problem is how you cant really fold the bows swiftly.

Hello I'm new here and i was looking at phyreblade's schematics and i thought of a way to use 2 gears and make it look like one. I'm probably not as smart as you guys so tell me if this sounds stupid. what if you put them on top of each other. if you leave a space between the gears an then have a sideways gear in the back when you pull the string to move the top one they will move in opposite directions. sorry if its unclear.

Hey Deicida,

Your idea makes perfect sense, and would work, the real question is really more about application than whether it would work. You should also describe (actually I think we'd all prefer if you could make a diagram or schematic) about how would you use that to improve on the existing design... :)

I dont think its a question of how smart any of us are Deicida, because if you can build something like this or can design something it doesn't matter and no one would ever question your inteligence anyway. And yes I agree with Phyreblade your idea makes perfect sense.

Good idea my friend.

Thank you. I tried making at least something resembling a schematic (I may warn you though, it's not pretty). i think i put it in right? the arrow on the sideways gear is really weird looking.

Phyreblade wrote:

Sandman wrote:hmm.. any pictures of what you're talking about? i'm not really following

OK, here's what I was trying to describe. Having made them into schematics, I can see why they are hard to visualize:



The draw cable is connected to a small pulley directly attached to a large spiral cam. The cam engages a bearing pin at the first intersection of the spring loaded tongs. Pull the cable, and the cam rotates, pushing the pin, and extending the tongs.

Here's a more complex variation of this idea:


This is the same idea, except that the pully is now spring loaded with a flat spiral spring, and is indirectly coupled to the spiral cam via a one way rachet system. Pull the cable, the pulley teeth engage the spring loaded teeth on the cam, and the cam pushes the pin to extend the tongs.

At full extension, (I didn't design any internal limiters to do this for either design, but it could be limited at either the cable or the cam) you let go of the string, and the cam automatically retracts the cable. Then if you pull it again, it rotates the cam so that the pin passes the ledge, and the tongs will automatically retract.

Then I was looking at the AC2 trailer schematic, and it occured to me that maybe I was overthinking it. (I guess I have a predisposition towards doing so ) The two wheels (the big and small wheels) look a lot like simple pulleys. And there are much simpler ways to use pulleys:



Big pulley, little pulley. Directly attached one atop the other, with the cable from the periphery of the big pulley routed around, and directly attached to the the first intersecting pin of the lazy tongs, and the draw cable directly attached to the smaller pulley. Almost ludicrously simple...

I guess I preferr working on things I think are complicated...

SWEET. would you mind if i took this and actually made it?? when i get back to school well have a new £18000 precision laser cutter that ill have full access too. (doing my gcse's and i can use this for my "project"). im working on another blade but ill draw it out on the cad and cut it wen i get back then upload some pics :)

the gun he fired was most likely a wheel lock because it has the right date of invention and the mechanism in the trailer looks the same.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheellock

Deicida wrote:Thank you. I tried making at least something resembling a schematic (I may warn you though, it's not pretty). i think i put it in right? the arrow on the sideways gear is really weird looking.

@Deicida
That is a great schematic. The arrow on the side gear is absolutely fine, we can see perfectly what it is trying to describe. Now the real question is, are there are advantages to having two gears one atop the other, as opposed to side by side?

@mondini
I have no problems with anyone building anything I post here. However I do have 2 non-negotiable requirements for use of these schematics. The first is that I/We *require* MUCHO PICS of the build process.

The second is full disclosure of source. I.E. Tell everyone that the Exotic Automatic Forums rock the casbah, and that they should all visit, join and come up with more great schematics for themselves and others to try and make...

That is all.

one advantage is that it saves a little bit of space, material, and time because you don't have to cut the metal into and odd shape and cutting it in the shape with two gears side by side is a little harder than cutting a rectangle. By the way what material would you recommend someone should build this out of?