First topic message reminder :

Yes, it's that time again.

ANOTHER Hidden Blade for our dissecting :)

The trailer shows the inside of the dubbed 'Altair Style' Blade (Dubbed because the second installment is about an assassin named 'Ezio'. Also, he has TWO, yes, 2 hidden blades, one for each arm.

(Thanks to KroenenPayne for the character image)


What we know so far:

- You’ll have a ton of new weapons to choose from including an axe, a hammer, a mace, a spear, 2 different sword types, a spear axe, and 2 smaller blades
- You CAN swim
- Da Vincis workshop is in the game
- Locations include Saint Marks Basilica, The Grand Canal, The Little Canal, and the Rialto bridge.
- The game opens in 1476, Altair is from 1191
- So you do indeed play as a new ancestor of Altair / Desmond
-You will see the countryside of Tuscany
- The “Auditore” family is mentioned
- The main characters name is Ezio Auditore de Firenze
- He is a nobleman of Florence
- Big characters are in the game including Machiavelli, Caterina Sofrza, and Lorenzo de Medici
- YOU DO INDEED GLIDE on Da Vincis flying machine.
- Game will feature a new notoriety system that governs how enemy soldiers and people will treat you.
- You can disarm enemies and use their own weapons against them this time.
- Each weapon has a special move.
- 16 unique mission types.
- No more ease dropping or pick pocketing missions.
- If you get beat up to much you will need to see a street side doctor to regain full strength.
- Hidden objects (like flags in the first one) are there to uncover but this time if you track them down you will get in-game bonuses that make it worth your time.
- Items include, flags, statues, and gold coins and more that isnt mentioned.
- New enemy types with unique attitudes and weaknesses are present in the game. Archers are mentioned, as well as elite enemies, dagger wielders, “Brutish” armored troops with heavy armor and 2 handed swords and axes, and an intelligent halberd enemy will probe hiding places with their weapons if they think you’re near by.
- While hiding in a hay bail you can assassinate people this time, but it may expose your position.
- You can still climb towers and ride horses
- The Lorendo de Medici assassination attempt is in the game.
- There is now a night and day sequence in the game.
- 240 people are working on this title.

Not much else except this teaser trailer:



I guess the lazy tong idea was right guys!:


What is that round thing in the center? Maybe a spiral spring that pushes and pulls the blade back in? We won't know for sure until we actually see it operate:


The most visible change i think is the fact that he has all of his fingers. There is definatly something going on with the device's operation dealing with the wrist:


You use this in the game:

For using the same action to drive extension and retraction, check out my schematic. It's essentially a DAOTF. A gear turns only clockwise 180 degrees each time the action (ring pull or other such mechanic) is performed, and pushes or pulls the sliding double action, depending on the position.

Hey everybody, just posting with a temporary profile, probably going to make a real one sooner or later.

Anyway, I've been looking over the thread for a few hours now (yes, hours {I'm interested not in the blade itself but in how to make it feasible with Renaissance-era tech..okay, it's really just about the freaking blade}) and I've come up with various thoughts/constructive criticisms/other side notes about the hidden blade. Here they are:

1) You can't be certain that the "apparently" telescoping pieces are actually telescoping--from what I know about Renaissance era weapons (unfortunately not much, but Google helps) weapons often appeared to be telescoping; in actuality the weapons were welding with various widths to act as a form of reinfocement. So, Ezio's blade is probably not made up of sections; rather it only appears to be.

2)The pictures where Ezio holds his hands loose with the blade out are probably impossible--this seems weird, but allow me to explain. Creating a well machined locking mechanism, combined with whatever various scissor jacks, pulleys and/or gears, would be nearly impossible for Renaissance blacksmiths. So, if in fact the activation is on a ring worn on the pinkie, would keeping your pinkie extended act as a locking mechanism? The scissor jack (if used) could be made out of a strong enough material to prevent damage to itself upon striking a person, and having the pinkie extended would prevent one's hand from getting in the way of a strike, allowing the blade itself to be shorter.

3) Out of all the designs proposed, Phyreblade's "simple" one seems like the most feasible--no real explanation needed here.

@ The Engi - I agree that it is more reasonable for the blade to just look like two pieces (thats what I did on my blade). However, it is thought to be in two pieces because, when closed, the housing for the blade is shorter than the extended blade- this means there must be two parts. Then again it's only a videogame and doesn't actually exist so we'll never know how it works unless it is explained in the game, which it most likley won't be...

The gears and tongs and pulleys wouldn't be impossible to make with that technology. It would just take a long time with a good file... they had files back then right?




On a side note, I just noticed that there are clips of AC2 in the Playstation 3 TV commercials now... (the one with the guitar...) like that....

First off, I'm not sure why it got cut off but my username is not "The Engi", it's "The Engineer". Not saying that you messed up Nightshade, the forum just decided to mess with me.
-----
Anyway, I'll try to make the picture I drew up and attach the link, but my idea uses three parts differing from Phyreblade's:

1)The blade is notched in two places. One is near the point and one is near the base. These notches are diagonal; in other words, things can slide in and out of the notches easily, but they get caught in the middle of them. Tough to explain, the image will make it much easier.

2)There are two pins, one on either side of the blade, that are put on constant inward pressure on the blade. The pins are stationary in terms of the length of the blade and their depth is from one's forearm to the opposite side of the "sheath". As the blade moves in and out these pins lock into the notches described above, locking the blade into its "hidden" and "extended" positions.

3)There is one of those spiral springs from self-winding watches located on top of the large pulley wheel. As the blade extends this spring builds tension to a point at which it almost unwinds and pulls the blade back in. However, the pins mentioned above lock the blade into place, preventing it from retracting. If the pinkie ring string is tugged again the spiral spring has enough energy to retract the blade and return it to its "hidden" position.

Again, the picture will make more sense, but think over these ideas. I can almost guarantee they will work.

I see you are a guest. That might be why you have problems with your username.
Join an become a member and that should fix it.

The Engi wrote:First off, I'm not sure why it got cut off but my username is not "The Engi", it's "The Engineer". Not saying that you messed up Nightshade, the forum just decided to mess with me.
-----
Anyway, I'll try to make the picture I drew up and attach the link, but my idea uses three parts differing from Phyreblade's:

1)The blade is notched in two places. One is near the point and one is near the base. These notches are diagonal; in other words, things can slide in and out of the notches easily, but they get caught in the middle of them. Tough to explain, the image will make it much easier.

2)There are two pins, one on either side of the blade, that are put on constant inward pressure on the blade. The pins are stationary in terms of the length of the blade and their depth is from one's forearm to the opposite side of the "sheath". As the blade moves in and out these pins lock into the notches described above, locking the blade into its "hidden" and "extended" positions.

3)There is one of those spiral springs from self-winding watches located on top of the large pulley wheel. As the blade extends this spring builds tension to a point at which it almost unwinds and pulls the blade back in. However, the pins mentioned above lock the blade into place, preventing it from retracting. If the pinkie ring string is tugged again the spiral spring has enough energy to retract the blade and return it to its "hidden" position.

I think I know what you're going for and thank you. Your 2nd item just solved how to include a much easier locking mechanism into my own design.

I've looked into your 3rd item before. If you're going for time period realism, I don't believe that type of spring was around in the first time period. You might get away with including it into AC2 time period, but it still wouldn't be quite timeline accurate. DaVinci died more than 100 years before that spring was 'officially' invented.

Hey guys, i'm new here, and i like what you guys are doing.
I found some random video on youtube, probably made by children, but it works. probably with springs and stuff. i think this is the closest people got.

here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR2quMM5TtQ

hope you guys can figure something out.

It's in another thread... pause at 1:48 and you can see the non-existant retracting mechanism (you may see a part sticking out the back at the very end, but look closer and you will see that that is the blade).... and you never see it retracting except during the blade closeup.... I think it was agreed on that it was a fake (double action fake that is...), and I've also heard that he said he would make a tutorial for it but would not include the retraction mechanism because it was too expensive..... Sure it's a good single action blade, but it's nothing special...

Nightshade wrote:Not entirely new... It's been shown in another thread on here. The general decision I believe, was that it doesn't actually auto-retract. Just pause the video at 1:48. Clearly no retraction mechanism...

And I ask again... wtf is power steel???

@Nightshade

I completely agree, in fact, if you look at the video carefuly, when he "retracts" the blade, his hand moves in a very weird-ass way, implicating that he prabably reversed the video to make it LOOK like it can retract, when in actuality, it never had the ability... cheapo trying to trick us into thinking it can auto-retract.

Also, I think by "power steel" he really meant something like tempered steel or something similar to that. The kid had a Russian accent, and it is probably his first language too...

I thought it was spanish.....

And I didn't realise that video was on the last page too...


As a side note, ONLY 13 DAYS 'TILL ACII! WOOTNESS!

and, ONLY 7 DAYS 'TILL THE ACII LINEAGE FILM PREMIERE ON SPIKE TV AT MIDNIGHT!!!

Nightshade wrote:I thought it was spanish.....

Actually, only the subtitles were in spanish, he was just speaking plain english, just very bad plain english.....

I meant the accent...

11 DAYS 'TILL ACII!

5 DAYS 'TILL AC LINEAGE PREMIER!


ya. I be doin a countdown.

10 DAYS 'TILL ACII!

4 DAYS 'TILL AC LINEAGE PREMIER!

LOL Counting down are we? 

 

9 DAYS 'TILL ACII!

3 DAYS 'TILL AC LINEAGE PREMIER!

Hey. I'm new to this. Or I have been looking at all of these designs for all the different hidden blades for a while but I'm new in that I just made an account! I am trying to make sense out of all of the mechanics for this stuff so if I ask a lot of questions go easy on me?
I'm trying to create a very authentic Altair wristblade so I hope you don't mind if I PM some of you guys for help. I love all of these ideas! You guys are great!
n3bula

@ n3bulagam3r



8 DAYS 'TILL ACII!

2 DAYS 'TILL AC LINEAGE PREMIER!

Only 8 days left to the release
Damn i have forgot to pre order it
RUN AND ORDER shit

If you preorder it you HAVE to get one of the editions. Like...it should be a moral obligation. But I'm psyched. It is almost here!

I'm hopin that my Gamestop is getting the Master Assassin's edition. That Ezio figure would so pwn on top of my TV...

You mean like the Black Edition? I thought there was the White and then the Black.

Yea you have to buy one of the Editions
I like the Black one since it has the Master Assassin figure and other stuff the White don't have
The Ezio figure would be like the most awsome trophy/figure on top of the TV

hey guy's, back again, and I will make a real, working hidden blade! it has to be!
so, the new hidden blade. I saw that you all wonder what the round thing was, and I know what it is...
Enzio will use a gun, yes, a GUN in the game! a Hidden gun!
he turns on the round piece, will place the gunpowder and bullet in front of the barrel or somthing, and pulls a sort of trigger and shoots!

I am going to look if I can make a design that is plausible to work, but based on the first one, with maby 2 sliders, but not sure!

.......Really? .......just some advice for you........READ THE OTHER POSTS BEFORE MAKING YOURSELF LOOK LIKE A FOOL!



7 DAYS 'TILL ACII!

1 DAYS 'TILL AC LINEAGE PREMIER!

And all of the special editions have an Ezio figure. White and BLack are Europe and Australia only (black has more other stuff). The Master Assassin's edition is U.S. only. (It's like the black edition, but white)

Hey, I'm new here.
I thought of something awfully simple, and probably preposterous, but judging by this picture, Ezio holds the sheath between his ring and middle finger. Could it be that he simply pulls it back with his two fingers, and there's no actual retracting mechanism?

In any case, I'm trying to sketch up ideas as to how a real retracting mechanism would work. I'll see if I can come up with something :)

Edit:
Okay, I pretty much proved myself wrong by looking at this picture closely and comparing it with the previous one, and it seems more likely that Ezio merely uses his two fingers to pull the blade out further, or hold it tightly for action. There's a good chance that the mechanism is flimsy and the blade doesn't operate well without holding it manually.

hey
im new but i think i've figured out how to the the hidden blade/gun combo works so if you want to know just ask

Zartust wrote:hey
im new but i think i've figured out how to the the hidden blade/gun combo works so if you want to know just ask

That's the whole reason for the forum.
Raise your flag and see who salutes.

@ DensetsuShun- I've just gotta say that holding a blade that way just doesn't work well.... I've tried it with my own blade.... Fingers aren't meant to spread like that when your fist is clenched.... and watch the E3 trailer.... Doesn't even touch the blade.....

DensetsuShun: Well, about the mechanism being flimsy. Just look at the AC2 Focus On 1, the one with Leonardo and the assassination arsenal. You'll see plenty of times that he doesn't need to keep grip of the blade, so the mechanism looks like its pretty stable.

Zartist: ...Go for it! Tell us. xP

6 DAYS 'TILL ACII!

AC LINEAGE PREMIER TONIGHT AT 12:00PM ON SPIKE TV!

Cant wait for part two of Lineage. So damn close but still so far away

I would love to hear a plausible mechanism design for the blade/gun combo. You should post it so we can see
Excitement!

Ok guys

I have no drawings yet and its hard to explain in words.

This just hit me yesterday.

the main thing that turns a hidden blade into a hidden gun is the fact that BEFORE Ezio fires the gun he has to turn a dial on the blade. the blade has to be in hidden mode in order for the gun to work.


1. the dial contains a section of the gun barrel that is vertical until the dial is turned. Ezio would place the gunpowder-wadding-slug for faster and easier loading in this section of the barrel. once the dial is turned the gun is loaded and fireable.

2.Ezio then aims at his target

3. Ezio then pulls back the pin like thing in the back of the guanlet (its like a modern day firing pin) that is attached to high tension spring that when the pin is released it comes forward and hits something that makes sparks and ingnites the gunpowder

4.Boom the Target is dead or is really scared depending on how accurate the gun is.

oh also since its just an idea i dont know how to make yet but Im working on it

Yes, although I am pretty sure someone already mentioned an old flint-lock gun design type of deal.

you basically just explained a flintlock pistol

yes i did in a way

but now the real challenge is taking the flint lock pistol and deconstructing it so it works with hidden blade in one system. and so it works without damaging the user

the problem is that the size and wieght of this machine would fairly large

I'm pretty sure that the gun and blade work on different systems and are just placed right next to each other.

hate to say this, but after watching the first episode of AC lineage.... i am forced to conclude that it's hidden blade:

1. is obviously made of power steel.

2. doesn't look like its double action at all. :'(

First

There is no such thing a F***ing power steel.

also i think i found a flaw in the idea of the hidden gun being a flintlock.

that is the end of barrel section in the dial would have to be closed so that no gunpowder falls out. so my thought is that the flintlock hidden gun wouldn't work.

But

if Leonardo Da Vinci created something like our modern day bullet cartridge thats a different story.(there is a possibility of this since Da Vinci was a genius)

Hidden Blade

i have a problem with the pinky finger ring trigger system

lets say u kill some one and you have to run a way and you can freerun.
so you run and then you do a kong over a ledge and in order to do a kong you have to extend you pinky. so the blade would release and hit the ledge. possibly breaking or making you unable to complete the kong. so then your screwed because when the blade broke it probably shattered into shards and some would go into your hand/wrist causing you to bleed and eventually killing you. also remember you were getting chased so you just got caught.

maybe a different firing mechinism is in order

5 DAYS 'TILL ACII!




@ Zartust - Freerun saftey- just a little latch that can be put on while freerunning. that would solve the accidental release thing.

good idea thank you.

also my last statement on how the flintlock wont work scratch that.
(i rewatched a video and saw that is exactlly what is on the hidden gun minus the turn dial idea i had first.)oops

Zartust wrote:First

There is no such thing a F***ing power steel.

also i think i found a flaw in the idea of the hidden gun being a flintlock.

that is the end of barrel section in the dial would have to be closed so that no gunpowder falls out. so my thought is that the flintlock hidden gun wouldn't work.

But

if Leonardo Da Vinci created something like our modern day bullet cartridge thats a different story.(there is a possibility of this since Da Vinci was a genius)

Hidden Blade

i have a problem with the pinky finger ring trigger system

lets say u kill some one and you have to run a way and you can freerun.
so you run and then you do a kong over a ledge and in order to do a kong you have to extend you pinky. so the blade would release and hit the ledge. possibly breaking or making you unable to complete the kong. so then your screwed because when the blade broke it probably shattered into shards and some would go into your hand/wrist causing you to bleed and eventually killing you. also remember you were getting chased so you just got caught.

maybe a different firing mechinism is in order

BUT! Freerunning, or parkour as some will say, isn't rudimentary and strict. You have freedom to do whatever you want to get where ever you want as fast as possible. A kong is, albeit fancy, not as effective as using your legs in most cases. Also, the kong can be substituted with a simple vault in which case you use one of two hands. So, I don't think it is difficult to work around such parameters. Another thing would be, perhaps he can slide the ring off or detach a joint in it to move freely when needed. It is all behind the scenes and very hush-hush.

well n3bulagam3r about the gunpowder fallin out of a flintlock. see back when they first made them they used beeswax. as for power steel, well never heard of it. i just thought that would be some food for thought.

What the hell is power steel? It doesn't sound like any particular blend to me.

it was posted in the black. hard to read it.

Lovedablade, I didn't say anything about it falling out, or about power steel. That was someone else. Read carefully please.
And power steel came from the youtube video of the REAL Assassin's blade or something like that. Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR2quMM5TtQ

As someone that has fired a black powder rifle you should realize that when loaded properly the ball and powder don't fall out because of the patch, a piece of cloth that the ball is wrapped in so to provide a tight seal. This keeps everything in the gun. Also it is more than likely a wheel lock pistol, look it up. Not flint lock, or match lock.

about the parkour kong thing, is that a kong is a very usefully fast vault that is highly effective (and fun to do ). but there are so many moves the use the exact same wrist movement. a simple muscle up, speed vault, monkey vault kinda, 180 vault, a roll, etc... if you do more freerunning then there are even move moves that have that wrist movement. so the latch idea is your best bet. it would be annoying having to attach and reattach it bit thats the easiest way.

yea i see that now. sorry you had copied it from zartust right. again sorry.

I do freerun some, not a lot. I can say there aren't really ever instances when my wrist/hand is fully extended backwards. It can be dangerous for your wrists. That's why tumblers sometimes need to wear sports tape around their wrists. And from playing Assassin's Creed many a time, I can judge that he never really does the "modern" freerunning moves like the monkey vault or kong or anything like that. Also, he only seems to roll when necessary. But any moves he does use don't require you to pull your wrist back all the way. I do not believe. I will go freerunning soon with my buddies and get back to you on it.

Mars42 wrote:As someone that has fired a black powder rifle you should realize that when loaded properly the ball and powder don't fall out because of the patch, a piece of cloth that the ball is wrapped in so to provide a tight seal. This keeps everything in the gun. Also it is more than likely a wheel lock pistol, look it up. Not flint lock, or match lock.

Could help to provide a link for people, but thanks for the info.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheellock

Hey about the wheel lock idea

it sound good and solid.

if you look at this picture where Ezio fires the Hidden gun you can sort of see the parts of the wheel lock. they are just really fancy.



also are there any specs of a hidden blade manual release/ manual retract

Zartust wrote:

also are there any specs of a hidden blade manual release/ manual retract

You mean on the site? Cause there're tons of designs for one way auto ones...

also...

4 DAYS 'TILL ACII!
And Happy Friday 13th!